In the episode where Angel finally sees darla, Angel said that he was 247 years old. Last season, he was 244. They also said that he killed Darla 3 1/2 years ago, which was true, so the time between seasons couldn't have been something like 2 or 3 years.
OK, this comes straight from the mouth of Whedon. The Master sired Darla. Darla sired Angel. Angel sired Drusilla. Drusilla sired Spike. In Whedon's world however, any vampire from the same line of descent can be considered your sire, therefore The Master, Darla, Angel and Drusilla can all legitimately claim to have sired Spike. Think of it as a family tree, with each generation siring the next. Arrange the five vamps in order of sirage on a vertical sheet and you'll see that each is a direct descendant of the one above. And as for Harmony - one of the Mayor's vampire lackeys bit her during the Graduation/Ascension kerfuffle. You actually get to see the vamp biting her. Spike is nowhere to be seen.
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Now, while all of this arguing over who sired who is very interesting, it has nothing to do with the original slip-up. When the person who posted the slip-up wrote, "They also said that he killed Darla 3 1/2 years ago..." and so on, they were talking about when Angel staked Darla, and it had nothing to do with siring at all.
I just thought you'd all like to know that.
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Hopefully this will help sort out the arguments about who sired Spike.
Joss Whedon has said all along that Spike was sired by Dru. And so he was. Yes, in School Hard Spike says to Angel "You were my sire, man!" So how is this possible?
The same way that I can say that my grandfather is my sire despite the fact that my dad sired me. Lineage. Because Angelus sired Dru, she has some of his blood in her. Therefore, there would probably have been a trace of Angelus's blood in Spike after he was turned. So, if you think about it, the master is also Spikes sire.
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Along with this is the debate on Spike's real age and when he was sired, and who is sire really is, though that has died off with the second season of Angel. My take is that Joss originally had one plan, and then changed it later on, so he inadvertently changed the years/lineage/etc. with it. Sadly, because it adds a mocking quality to what had been interesting and intriguing.
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Spike sired Harmony? We've no idea who sired Harmony!? She presumably was made into a Vampire at the battle with the Mayor at the graduation at the end of the third season? Spike was only in one episode in that season, much earlier on.
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OK this whole sire thing IS confusing but this is how it goes... darla sired by the master made Angel, Angel then went on his merry way and made drusilla she in turn went and made Spike. But in that episode spike refers to Angel as his sire cause he is technically his grand-sire and they were close back in the "powdered wig days" ;)
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Here's to the orginal slip-up on Angel's age. He's been *alive for 275 years. He's been a vampire for 249 years. I put up a timeline of Angel's activites. Basically if there was a date given for Angel, it's on the timeline with his age since he was born, and since he was reborn as a vampire.
http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/slayerstuffpage/angeltimeline.html
Stephanie Loss
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Gah, if I have to read about the Master siring Darla, Darla siring Angel, Angel siring Drusilla, Drusilla siring Spike, etc., situation again, I'll --- I'll --- okay, I won't do much of anything, except pout like a baby, of course, but all the same. Nevertheless, it's an interesting discussion/comment thingy going on here. I'd like to add my own comment to the original slip up, however, if it's allowed...
Okay, think. In our short mortal lives, each year is kinda like another check on the calendar, one less day to live. But for a vampire like Angel...well, considering how long he's been alive already, it's reasonable for him not to really see the importance of counting each year anymore, meaning he could easily have lost count by now. Yes, logically, all he'd have to do is subtract his birth year from the current year, but in conversations in which he reveals his age, it'd all be from impulse rather than careful calculations, with him just saying the first number that came to mind... A simple answer is, Angel just wouldn't really care about his actual age anymore. I mean, it's not like he's going to die of old age or anything.
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Drusilla definitely sired Spike. It says so in the novelization of Angel, City of, which is worth reading because it reveals a lot of Angel/Darla/Dru/Spike history.
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This is a confusing subject. Many books claim that Drusilla was Spike's sire. However in Buffy episode "School Hard" Spike clearly called Angel his sire.
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Ok, lets try to clear this. In Buffy ('School Hard) when Spike first arrives, Angel says that he is Spikes sire. However in later episodes, i think when Buffy wants to know about the two slayers Spike killed. You see that Dru sired him. So there has been a mix up, however it is seen that Dru is Spikes sire, and Angel...??? No idea why he was given that line!!
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but if you also think about Angels age, what about thoes many years he lived in the hell dimension? wouldn't he be even older than? I dont know why they left that so uncovered- im guessing for less confusion.
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this is for the comment that spike_unknown made about Angel being in the hell dimension..........yes he's actually around 400 years old. i get the Buffy Magazine in the mail and someone wrote in there about the whole Angel being in the hell dimension for so long why wouldn't he look like the master. and they infact did say that he is around 400 years old, but my opinion is that he just might not count those years.
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Wow, this is quite the confusion.
Spike was definitely sired by Drusilla. Again with the lineage ... Angel was Spike's "grand-sire" ... just like Darla was Dru's "grandmommy" ... as you always hear her say.
Spike DO NOT sire Harmony as he was not even around for Graduation Day Part 2. She was clearly bit by some unknown vampire that worked for Mayor Wilkins during the battle.
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What are you, behind? Drusilla made Spike! If you've watched the crossover between Darla, Angel, Drusilla, and Spike, it is obvious that Drusilla sired Spike. Spike was an innocent good writer who didn't find love for the girl he wrote a poem for, then in an alley he met Drusilla, and Drusilla turned him.
How can you say that not even James Marsters knows who sired him?
Then Spike sired Harmony... but that's something else altogether.
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